tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2584734024537154964.post8180804739292842093..comments2024-01-14T16:29:16.030-05:00Comments on killing Mother: Defining Freedomkilling Motherhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07029992871936764888noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2584734024537154964.post-44775753790042122572010-12-08T13:05:43.083-05:002010-12-08T13:05:43.083-05:00Ultimately, the fact remains that North America...Ultimately, the fact remains that North America's First People lived on this land for 10's of thousands of years and left the place relatively intact. The foreign culture that invaded the land does not have such an impressive track record. Thanks for following Opit.killing Motherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07029992871936764888noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2584734024537154964.post-22244810297215375342010-12-08T12:34:23.204-05:002010-12-08T12:34:23.204-05:00Potlach is today generally regarded as a social ti...Potlach is today generally regarded as a social time of sharing. And while the violent tendencies of native Americans are undoubtedly true, 'counting coup' sounds like a cunning way of allowing controlled aggression to serve as a demand for respect. <br />The taking of scalps was a reaction to the British bounty and not a practice before that. Since there was a common sign language understood by all that speaks to a community of interest we only approach with technology.<br /><br />Democracy and Representative Government are not the same thing : especially when the rich control the process. I won't tell you that what is more correct would be something like 'narco-kleptocracy'...but I sure can't disprove it.<br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kleptocracyopithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01621946866211400380noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2584734024537154964.post-62134878870792083592010-11-23T13:22:55.332-05:002010-11-23T13:22:55.332-05:00@Tommy, thanks for joining the conversation. All ...@Tommy, thanks for joining the conversation. All comments and ideas are always welcome.killing Motherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07029992871936764888noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2584734024537154964.post-35523937263800150462010-11-23T13:21:55.902-05:002010-11-23T13:21:55.902-05:00@Gail, the way I heard it was the potlach was a ki...@Gail, the way I heard it was the potlach was a kind of contest to see who could be the most generous. To me, the senseless killing and plundering doesn't sound like something hunter/gatherer cultures would do. In fact, waste is almost universally taboo among such cultures, as they tend to be familiar with the hardships of scarcity, particularly temperate peoples who must endure winter. I will definitely look into this subject more and post if I find anything interesting. Thanks for the great conversation.killing Motherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07029992871936764888noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2584734024537154964.post-26323778059077693152010-11-23T11:12:34.491-05:002010-11-23T11:12:34.491-05:00Wow, excellent essay regarding the concept that bo...Wow, excellent essay regarding the concept that both thrills and perplexes me more than any other. The concept of freedom is the heart of the human. I know we don't have it everyday and we strive to fill our days with freedom as much as possible within a system that has little to offer except security.<br /><br />As you point out freedom has a cost within the American idea... I am thinking Sitting Bull never really thought much about it until he observed white people enslaved by their own minds. Of course maybe I'm wrong... maybe indigenous people are very conscious of this concept.<br /><br />Thank you again and thanks to Gail for leading me in.tommy krenshawhttp://freedomguerrilla.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2584734024537154964.post-52445925695488369502010-11-23T10:20:32.054-05:002010-11-23T10:20:32.054-05:00hmm..I will have to look into this more. wiki has...hmm..I will have to look into this more. wiki has only positive things to say about potlatches, which were banned for a long time. So perhaps it is Christian propaganda that they were wasteful? On the other hand, this is what Answers.com says:<br /><br />Literally, ‘giving’. An extravagant festival held by the Indian tribes of the northern Pacific coast, especially the Haida, the Nootka, and the Kwakiutl. The ceremonial destruction or giving away of possessions by chiefs and leading warriors establishes superiority in social or political status, or permits the assumption of inherited rights. One chief might ‘shame’ another by destroying valuable pots, killing slaves, and burning down houses. If the other chief failed either to give away or to destroy more things, then he would lose public esteem. According to legend, the first patlatch was concerned with the exchange of feathers, long regarded as sacred objects by the North American Indians.<br /><br />Read more: http://www.answers.com/topic/potlatch#ixzz167RhvASHGail Zawackihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01800944469843206253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2584734024537154964.post-15889996629864680022010-11-23T09:55:41.722-05:002010-11-23T09:55:41.722-05:00@Gail, I understand your distress, but I also do n...@Gail, I understand your distress, but I also do not believe that wanton destruction is part of human nature. Examples of sustainable cultures do exist. Those examples may seem sparse, but the reason we don't see many examples is because the dominating, aggressive, patriarchal cultures have destroyed them. Just because the aggressors won, doesn't mean they represent the entirety of humanity. The spoils go to the victors so to speak. Maybe from the ashes of our contemporary destructive, global civilization a new awareness will be reborn. One can but hope.<br /><br />I will have to review the history of the potlaches. It was my understanding the ceremony was a celebration of abundance but also one which fostered sharing. Thanks for the info.killing Motherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07029992871936764888noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2584734024537154964.post-83782655569881844092010-11-23T08:15:38.572-05:002010-11-23T08:15:38.572-05:00Didn't the Pacific Northwest have potlatches w...Didn't the Pacific Northwest have potlatches where they wantonly destroyed stuff to demonstrate their wealth? I think there are darn few examples of egalitarian, peaceful, sustainable societies.<br /><br />It's very depressing to me but I am close to concluding that it is an integral part of human nature to burn through resources until there are none left, and foul our nest until it is uninhabitable - and then to try to grab our neighbor's.<br /><br />And the problem now is of course that we have run out of neighbor's, because we need an entire planet to grab, not just an island or a continent - and there isn't one available.Gail Zawackihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01800944469843206253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2584734024537154964.post-16456717072401082582010-11-19T07:52:22.622-05:002010-11-19T07:52:22.622-05:00@Lee, Thank you very much for your thoughtful addi...@Lee, Thank you very much for your thoughtful addition to the conversation. Your comments regarding the negative aspects of human civilization predating contemporary western culture is duly noted. I would argue, however, that not ALL civilizations have been inherently destructive. Jared Diamond's "Collapse" provides an interesting summary of which societies have collapsed under their own consumption and those which managed to find a more sustainable existence. <br /><br />The North American Indians for the most part were in the latter group, but as you note, one should not generalize. Hundreds of tribes had hundreds of different cultures, not all of them ideal, but some including the collective tribes of the Northeast and Pacific Northwest were generally egalitarian, peace-loving peoples who lived sustainably with Earth.<br /><br />It is believed the Minoan people of Crete lived for over one thousand years in an egalitarian society without warfare. Making them perhaps the most peaceful people of all time before their civilization was wiped out by a tidal wave.<br /><br />I agree wholeheartedly with your summary. Indeed, morality must come from within and must be a construct of an individual's own conscience, not something imposed by external influences like churches and governments. If every person in Western society would take responsibility for their own, individual morality, the world would be a far superior place.killing Motherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07029992871936764888noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2584734024537154964.post-87272245579383214012010-11-19T06:42:21.049-05:002010-11-19T06:42:21.049-05:00Well done. A cogent analysis of our delusional att...Well done. A cogent analysis of our delusional attitudes regarding freedom.<br />Nonetheless, it behooves us to remember that without execption, all of the destructive behaviors and forces--poverty, enslavement, violence and oppression-- cited here predate the rise of democracy and the United States. Mankind has been thoughtlessly degrading his environment and oppressing his fellow man for many thousands of years. We're just the latest flavor of that. It's in vogue to blame western civilization for the planet's ills; the deprived ecosystems and vast deserts located where we find the remains of mankind's earliest civilizations (Peru, North Africa, the Indus Valley, etc.) put the lie to that by demonstrating conclusively that mankind has destroyed his surroundings--and other men--for as long as he's been present on the planet.<br />We should also be careful not to over-romanticize native Americans, a bad habit which modern Americans are ever eager to indulge in. While their societies had many good features, they were also notoriously violent- reliable historical accounts of their devotion to the torture and murder of captive enemies, for example, are horrific (Champlain was utterly appalled by it) and evidences of warfare and cannibalism in the American southwest are, at the very least, disturbing. They got a very bad deal in the end; but so does every conquered people. Once again, the extinction of indigenous peoples on the arrival of invaders is hardly a tale new to the American continent alone. Think Jericho.<br /><br />The only real freedom available to human beings is inner freedom. The pursuit of inner objectivity, a transformational approach to the experience of human consciousness, has been under way on the planet for as long as human beings have created civilizations. <br />While the sciences are vital to an objective understanding of outer conditions, only a radical transformation of our inner understanding of our nature can lead to anything approaching a true morality, whether societal or ecological. <br />This is a highly individual process, not a societal one; and yet, as teachers from Christ to Buddha have proven over the course of human history, it's exactly that individual process of inner transformation that can have the greatest impact on our overall understanding of the human condition--both inner and outer--, and what might be needed to transform it. <br />In summary: there is something wrong INSIDE us: what is it? This is the essential question.<br />Morality, in the end, must arise from an inner transformation, and convictions which are not based on just ideas alone, but rather reside, as a zen master might say, "in the very marrow of our bones."lee van laerhttp://www.compliquations.comnoreply@blogger.com